I have no idea how to address things on a societal level, but you (and readers) might be interested in the 1976 film "Not a Pretty Picture." It's an experimental film where the director recreated the scene of her own rape, with her younger self played by a young woman who had also been raped as a teenager, and the film includes a lot of discussion by all of the actors about what they have been taught about rape. It's the 1970s so nobody has any idea what boundaries are, which means that the young actors of both sexes are really candid in describing the basically pro-rape things they still to some extent believe. They work through some of those beliefs on camera. Obviously an extremely grueling watch, but also an example of people seeking to unlearn the beliefs that make rape hard to prevent or combat.
Still waiting on my library hold, but the comparison that comes to mind is how many Christian denominations have had a big reckoning (or a need for a big reckoning…) in the past several years re: various abuses of power. By the time you remove egregious wrongdoers (if you can muster the institutional will to get that far) and those who publicly supported, concealed, and covered for them, you don’t have much of an institution left. Dunno if I have a hopeful takeaway on this one except, mostly, in the eschaton, of course.
As to the "too many criminals to jail" question, we could grapple with the question of whether jail is a useful concept in this situation. Jail is too late, too slow, too expensive, too unrelated to the crime, and too easy to get out of, as well as being very likely to reinforce the rape mindset as revenge.
We need something that is prompt and painful if we want to actually avoid this behavior, but short and cheap so it will actually be carried ou
As far as changing culture. I go more towards changing the picture in people's heads, which means dealing with porn or making strings of rom-coms in Korean where men behave wonderfully and get the love of the heroine as a result. Preferably there is a plot line where they beat up a smart-mouthed bully of women along the way. (Rom-coms are big in South Korea.)
Yes, from a reinforcement learning point of view, this is the pitch for caning, not jail, where punishment is short, unpleasant, and people are quickly reintegrated into society.
I think changing culture/telling new stories is definitely part of it, but part of those new stories probably needs to be about making amends/choosing to live differently than your father/having a father tell a son to live differently/etc
I love that father-son plot line! It could be done so well... and in a whole range of different ways. The son who loves his mother and promises to live differently than the abusive father... the son who watches his father grieve and repent... the son who meets the wonderful woman who refuses to have anything to do with him after she meets his abusive father... And there are some mother-daughter plot lines here - though those are working out in real time apparently, as the women turn away from men or anything to do with them.
And I am highly amused at the "pitch for caning" comment. Quite right.
The idea of telling better stories appeals to me strongly. It reminds me of a piece I wrote some time ago inspired by an interview with the Nobel-Prize winning poet Seamus Heaney I saw that was done around the time of the Good Friday Peace Accords and he was talking about his hopefulness for the future of Northern Ireland.
He said that he was “rejoicing” that “a common story is achieved.” He goes on to say:
“. . . This isn’t the terminus, it’s a beginning, a middle, a wobbling around, nevertheless it represents somewhere everybody has arrived together . . . whether you think of yourself as British or Irish, if you live in the northern collective. . . the story has somehow become one story . . . ”
What I take him to mean is that the stories we tell about ourselves matter and that the key to any difficult reconciliation is that the two sides have to do more than just listen to each other's stories, they have to come together to tell a new story. Or new stories.
So it's not just about women telling their stories-- as important as that is. It's also about men telling new stories about what it means to be a man. It's about them being able to imagine a new path. So what if the men at the funeral instead of being blind to the young woman being groped by the drunken man had intervened and escorted the drunk out?
When I was in Ireland traveling alone as a young college student I was in a pub one night and a couple of guys were talking me up. They started buying me drinks-- not just pints but mixed drinks like Red Bull and vodka-- and being a bit forceful. Well I got up and went to the bathroom and when I came back they were gone. Turns out they had been invited to leave by some of the other men in the place who didn't like the way they were treating me.
Clearly these Irish men had a narrative that young women being harassed by drunks was not ok. And also a narrative that it was their duty to step in and protect me. I have no idea how exactly it went down since it happened when I was out of the room, but I very much appreciated a culture where men let each other know when they are crossing the line.
It seems to me that this is one narrative which would be useful in South Korea. I'm sure there are many others.
Starting when I was a teenager with my family them later when I was in the military and afterwards, after my divorce, I've had to live next to people, in the same building who are abusive or are abusive substance abusers, especially in the last 14 years, when I was dumped, by the VA, into sub standard living conditions, most of the time there was, or is, unclean air, or unclean water, or the city has been designated an EPA designated hazardous waste site,. All of that is exacerbated by people who are abusive, not only towards me, and others as well, and some of whom are substance abusers making a dangerous and harmful environment that I can barely function in on a day to day basis.
I have no idea how to address things on a societal level, but you (and readers) might be interested in the 1976 film "Not a Pretty Picture." It's an experimental film where the director recreated the scene of her own rape, with her younger self played by a young woman who had also been raped as a teenager, and the film includes a lot of discussion by all of the actors about what they have been taught about rape. It's the 1970s so nobody has any idea what boundaries are, which means that the young actors of both sexes are really candid in describing the basically pro-rape things they still to some extent believe. They work through some of those beliefs on camera. Obviously an extremely grueling watch, but also an example of people seeking to unlearn the beliefs that make rape hard to prevent or combat.
Still waiting on my library hold, but the comparison that comes to mind is how many Christian denominations have had a big reckoning (or a need for a big reckoning…) in the past several years re: various abuses of power. By the time you remove egregious wrongdoers (if you can muster the institutional will to get that far) and those who publicly supported, concealed, and covered for them, you don’t have much of an institution left. Dunno if I have a hopeful takeaway on this one except, mostly, in the eschaton, of course.
By the way Flowers of Fire is currently a free listen for audible subscribers. I listened to the first section in the car yesterday.
As to the "too many criminals to jail" question, we could grapple with the question of whether jail is a useful concept in this situation. Jail is too late, too slow, too expensive, too unrelated to the crime, and too easy to get out of, as well as being very likely to reinforce the rape mindset as revenge.
We need something that is prompt and painful if we want to actually avoid this behavior, but short and cheap so it will actually be carried ou
As far as changing culture. I go more towards changing the picture in people's heads, which means dealing with porn or making strings of rom-coms in Korean where men behave wonderfully and get the love of the heroine as a result. Preferably there is a plot line where they beat up a smart-mouthed bully of women along the way. (Rom-coms are big in South Korea.)
Yes, from a reinforcement learning point of view, this is the pitch for caning, not jail, where punishment is short, unpleasant, and people are quickly reintegrated into society.
I think changing culture/telling new stories is definitely part of it, but part of those new stories probably needs to be about making amends/choosing to live differently than your father/having a father tell a son to live differently/etc
I love that father-son plot line! It could be done so well... and in a whole range of different ways. The son who loves his mother and promises to live differently than the abusive father... the son who watches his father grieve and repent... the son who meets the wonderful woman who refuses to have anything to do with him after she meets his abusive father... And there are some mother-daughter plot lines here - though those are working out in real time apparently, as the women turn away from men or anything to do with them.
And I am highly amused at the "pitch for caning" comment. Quite right.
The idea of telling better stories appeals to me strongly. It reminds me of a piece I wrote some time ago inspired by an interview with the Nobel-Prize winning poet Seamus Heaney I saw that was done around the time of the Good Friday Peace Accords and he was talking about his hopefulness for the future of Northern Ireland.
He said that he was “rejoicing” that “a common story is achieved.” He goes on to say:
“. . . This isn’t the terminus, it’s a beginning, a middle, a wobbling around, nevertheless it represents somewhere everybody has arrived together . . . whether you think of yourself as British or Irish, if you live in the northern collective. . . the story has somehow become one story . . . ”
What I take him to mean is that the stories we tell about ourselves matter and that the key to any difficult reconciliation is that the two sides have to do more than just listen to each other's stories, they have to come together to tell a new story. Or new stories.
So it's not just about women telling their stories-- as important as that is. It's also about men telling new stories about what it means to be a man. It's about them being able to imagine a new path. So what if the men at the funeral instead of being blind to the young woman being groped by the drunken man had intervened and escorted the drunk out?
When I was in Ireland traveling alone as a young college student I was in a pub one night and a couple of guys were talking me up. They started buying me drinks-- not just pints but mixed drinks like Red Bull and vodka-- and being a bit forceful. Well I got up and went to the bathroom and when I came back they were gone. Turns out they had been invited to leave by some of the other men in the place who didn't like the way they were treating me.
Clearly these Irish men had a narrative that young women being harassed by drunks was not ok. And also a narrative that it was their duty to step in and protect me. I have no idea how exactly it went down since it happened when I was out of the room, but I very much appreciated a culture where men let each other know when they are crossing the line.
It seems to me that this is one narrative which would be useful in South Korea. I'm sure there are many others.
Starting when I was a teenager with my family them later when I was in the military and afterwards, after my divorce, I've had to live next to people, in the same building who are abusive or are abusive substance abusers, especially in the last 14 years, when I was dumped, by the VA, into sub standard living conditions, most of the time there was, or is, unclean air, or unclean water, or the city has been designated an EPA designated hazardous waste site,. All of that is exacerbated by people who are abusive, not only towards me, and others as well, and some of whom are substance abusers making a dangerous and harmful environment that I can barely function in on a day to day basis.
Anti-rape device. They need funding. Share far and wide.
https://gofund.me/b645cebf
Have you read Lyman Stone's post about PEPFAR's efficacy?
https://open.substack.com/pub/lymanstone/p/does-pepfar-actually-save-lives
As the Bible says, "Distance yourself from falsehoods."
Yes. I appreciate him digging in but I disagree and I’ll have a longer piece coming on that front.